A few years back I had the pleasure of accompanying then Cardiff City scout and former Hibs and Stoke City goalkeeper Mike McDonald on a scouting trip to Oldham’s Boundary Park. Mike was watching Oldham ahead of Cardiff’s meeting with them a week or so later.
It was a bitterly cold day (isn’t it always at Boundary Park!) in March 2002 but I had a great time. I interviewed Mike as he went about his business and I still think it makes interesting reading some eight years on. One thing is for sure, it’s not all complimentary tickets and executive lounges. Often it’s a long drive, little recognition and even less reward.
Sporting Fare (SF): What year did you hang up your boots?
Mike McDonald (MM): Some people say I should have retired earlier, but it was 1985.
SF: So how did you get involved with scouting?
MM: After being sacked as assistant manager of St Johnstone, Denis Smith, who I played with at Stoke, got the managers job at Sunderland and asked if I would become his Scottish scout.
SF: What year was that?
MM: I think it was 1987.
SF: Which clubs and managers have you worked for since then?
MM: I stayed at Sunderland with Denis Smith, then Malcolm Crosby and after that Terry Butcher. From there I worked at Northampton Town, firstly with John Barnwell and then Ian Atkins.
I must have done something right because Ian then took me with him to Chester and then Carlisle. I now work for Cardiff under Alan Cork.
SF: How does the system work? Do you choose the games/players to watch based on fixtures and tip offs, or does the club tell you where to go?
MM: The club tells me which games or players to go and watch.
SF: And would you say the majority of your work is watching future opponents or players the club may be interested in buying?
MM: The majority of my work is looking at future opponents although I will go and watch players we have been tipped off about. I also try to watch reserve team fixtures, keeping an eye on players not in the first team.
SF: Are you paid a wage, do you receive expenses or both?
MM: As it stands I am a part time scout and so only receive expenses based on mileage.
SF: So as a part time scout you must have a full time job to supplement that income?
MM: Yes, that’s right. Although if I were to be employed full time at a club with enough resources to do so, I would receive a salary. That’s very rare though, especially in lower league football.
SF: The lower league scouting system is not given enough funding then?
MM: It’s a question of budget. Lower league clubs only have so much money in the pot, so once you take players wages, transfer fees, youth development, football boots and transport costs into account then it’s a matter of how much is left for scouting.
SF: And how well organised is it? Would you say it’s worthwhile a club like Cardiff investing more money in scouting?
MM: I’ve only been at Cardiff since August 2001 and I’m still feeling my way with them, so to be honest I don’t know the full extent of their scouting system yet.
SF: In a wider context, would you say scouting is of vital importance to any club, or a luxury that only a few clubs with the cash need to do?
MM: Yes, I would say scouting is of vital importance to any club. Not only do we look at future opponents, but we receive tip-offs about players. Without those, where are the future players going to come from?
SF: How many scouts would you estimate are working in England at the moment then? Full or part time?
MM: A rough estimate would be between 1200 and 1500.
SF: And of those, how many would you say receive a salary? Mostly Premiership scouts I presume?
MM: All Premiership and First Division clubs will have full time scouts, maybe 10 clubs in the Second Division.
SF: How many scouts would a club employ? Say Carlisle and Manchester United.
MM: At Carlisle I did nearly all the scouting on future opponents apart from a few in Plymouth, Exeter and Torquay. Then you rely on contacts to help you out or the manager would also go and watch games.
With Manchester United you are talking about a different ball game. They will have a select few who will watch future opponents, then they will have a group who look at players in the Nationwide leagues, another group for non-league, another who watch U-17 and U19 games and so on down to six-eight year olds, all controlled by the chief scout.
They also have an overseas scout who goes to South America looking for players and this doesn’t include the hundreds of tip-offs they will receive. As I said, a different ball game!
SF: Is it possible for someone with no previous professional football connections to get into scouting?
MM: Yes, it would surprise you when you go to games and you meet other scouts. Most of them look like ordinary guys who have been teachers coaching kids at school and it has developed from there.
SF: Right, so when you are at a game what sort of things are you looking for and how do you record them? Quick notes to be written up later or do you write as it happens?
MM: I look at team formation, attacking and defensive corners, attacking free kicks, height of the side, the back four as a unit, individual players, throw-ins, danger men, the keeper, fitness of the team, weaknesses I think my club can exploit.
All that means I make quick scribbled notes and diagrams, which I write out fully within the next three or four days while it’s still fresh in my mind. That’s if I can read my scribbles!
SF: Who do you report to at the club? Chief scout, manager…someone else?
MM: At Cardiff I send it to the club and it’s passed on to the manager. At my previous clubs I dealt directly with the manager.
SF: And do you receive feedback from them? Either how good they think the report is or requests for more detailed info on a certain player, something like that?
MM: Yes, if they think the report is okay, or if they are not sure about something in the report they will ring and ask me about it.
SF: How involved are you at Cardiff? Does Lennie Lawrence [Cardiff manager] discuss transfers or future game plans with you?
MM: No, my actual involvement outside the scouting is very little.
SF: Do you think a club would benefit from scouts having more input into everyday matters that relate to them?
MM: It depends on the manager. I was fortunate to have a brilliant working relationship with Ian Atkins, who made me feel part of the backroom staff. He took me on the bench at games, including a play-off final at Wembley, and encouraged players to talk to me about opposing players. A lot of scouts don’t have that.
Because I was chief scout at Carlisle I was involved a great deal, speaking on the phone every day with Ian and if not working at my ‘proper’ job I would go to training. Ian would also ask my opinion on how we should play against future opponents, what system would work against them.
If we were interested in a certain player I would watch him two or three times and also go into his background.
SF: Finally, as the game continues to get more and more money-orientated, do you think the scouting system will be neglected by clubs who just go for the bigger names or will clubs continue to see the value in finding youngsters to develop?
MM: The bigger clubs will always need to make big money signings as they chase success and the money that goes with it. But if you look at Manchester United the nucleus of the side are homegrown talent who have come through the ranks and supported the team as youngsters which I think is a very good thing.
More and more clubs are investing in academies to develop their own players so you will always need scouts to go out and find the youngsters to fill them. So the answer to the question is, the clubs will always support the scouting system.
That concluded the interview with Mike, but there are a few more things I remember about the day. Firstly, there was no invite to an executive lounge or similar. We sat in the freezing stands with the home supporters. We were, however, treated to a few drinks in the club bar before the game, during which Mike introduced me to several other scouts in attendance. I was surprised at just how many there were for such a match.
I also remember being impressed with one player, a South American as I recall. I asked Mike about him and said he looked good. He laughed and dismissed him as a show pony who Cardiff would mark out of the game very easily. As it turned out, that’s just what they did, but said player went on to score a fair few goals for Oldham. Damned if I can remember his name though – any Oldham fans know who I’m on about?
That was eight years ago and it’s not hard to imagine that things have moved on – they certainly have for Cardiff City. Whether or not the scouting system in the lower leagues is the same now I don’t know, but I’m willing to bet it’s not changed all that much.
